Christine: What are your plans in the future, besides writing the book, to further the research, and what part do you think you are going to play?

Dr. Johnson: Well, uh... first of all, I think this whole media thing is a flash in the pan.

Jim: You're hoping it goes away.

Dr. Johnson: Well, I know it will. The media never stays on top of anything for very long. There's always the next story.

Uh, so I'm going to ride this wave if I can to do as much public education as possible, then my next wave is I'm going to write the book. To try to do more public education, which, by the way has always been a passion of mine. I do parenting workshops, I do other mental health workshops, so you know, this falls right into what I normally, naturally do. So, the intermediate thing when that wave washes out on the beach, do the book thing. And the book thing is going to lead to another media wave, maybe not the same way, but whenever you write a book there are certain media sources that want you to promote that book and want you on the radio show or whatever... and while this is all going on I'm going to get back out to this area as often as I can to collect more evidence and to hopefully someday, preferably sooner, but if it takes 10 or 20 years, then it will take 10 or 20 years but hopefully to get camcorder footage of this thing.

Christine: Now, do you have any... are you going to have any help from the BFRO or are you doing this on your own?

Johnson: I'm going back out there Saturday August 5th with friends of mine and the BFRO are not going to be involved other than they have been giving me advice on how to get into the ravine without being detected.

Christine: So they don't have any plans of going further with this

Johnson: They want me to keep them up to speed. John Frietas has been back a couple of times. Derrick Randalls came down once, he's going to come back in the future, but there's some involvement, but no, we're talking geographical distances.

Jim: Do These people have jobs also?

Johnson: They have wives, they have jobs, they can't spend all their spare time. I mean , Just to take the time to travel, to get here, let alone the time to be out there, is a big chunk of time. And there are other reports and they tend to hop on things real quick as soon as they can. They try to get as much evidence as possible for new fresh sightings and then its people like me who have had an encounter who keep going back out.

Christine: We want to create a remote system that we can actually put a camera up somewhere and have it remotely record and report back to a computer.

Johnson: Well, that would be nice. They did put some motion sensitive camera's out there. They did do that, and then they're going to come back and collect those cameras.

Jim: I hope they get some deer and some bigfoot.

Johnson: that would be nice. So, you know, they're involved but they can only do so much with their limited resources and time and geographical distances.

Christine: did you smell the creature first before you heard the sound?

Johnson: Yep

Christine: How long did it take from that point to when you started hearing the sounds?

Johnson: I'm going to show you on the trail.

Christine: OK

Johnson: I mean it would just be better for you to see it than try to describe that. We smelled the smell for about 50 to 100 feet. Then we walked a little farther around it. Then we started hearing the sounds

Christine: What was the weather like that day.

Johnson: hot. It had been in the 80 and 90 for two weeks before that. So it was very hot and very dry.

Chris: So we are going right back into the same kind of conditions.

Johnson: Right, except our encounter occurred right after 5:00 PM.

Me: OK, Different time

Johnson: Right

Jim: You were on the internet five or six hours after that. What moved you to go on the internet?

Johnson: (he laughs)

Jim: That is the thing that's bothering me--not bothering me, interests me the most because...

Johnson: OK, that's one of the things that the BFRO brought up... that, you know, as far as some people wondering about my credibility because I don't fit the mold of someone who makes a report.

Christine: Right

Johnson: But if you know who I am, If you know me personally, you know that I am a very passionate guy, you'll know that if I get interested in something, and moved, I move. I'm not somebody who sits around and waits for a while. Maybe I'll do this and maybe I'll do that... I go.. you know when you encounter bigfoot out there and you have me and my personality, the fear the shock, the terror, the adrenaline rush, I had... we went home, tucked the kids in bed, and uh, I had to get back to my office and start writing about it right away before I forgot anything. And then, because again I have a passion for public education, because I am an up front type of guy, that's just who I am, I had to get it out there to my family, to my friends, to any bigfoot website I could find.

Jim: So that is when you searched for the web sites?

Johnson: At that point, that night, that is when I searched for the websites and started delivering my report, and I also delivered it to the media because I was going to tell the world about what I had just experienced.

Christine: See, And that is what I first caught about you because Jim said , "our whole life is up there on the web, cause....

Jim: That is who we are

Christine: cause that's who we are. We're out there.

Johnson: Good

Christine: That's who we are, take it or leave it. You know, we don't pull any punches. We Tell it like it is.

Jim: I thought I saw in your first report that you weren't exactly new to the internet but you were certainly new to the bigfoot area and you were just getting it out there right now.

Johnson: Good! Exactly!

Jim: That was my impression.

Christine: that is what really, I think that is what really set everything in motion, including the media. Because that has never before...

Jim: Everyone else has kind of told their neighbor and then kept their mouth shut.

Johnson: Well, see, that is what the BFRO people are telling me is everyone usually sits on it for a while maybe tells a family friend or family member and then maybe they'll make a report a half year later and maybe five years later. It's like OK, that's who they are. But you know, I'm me and that's not the way I operate.

Christine: And a lot of the researchers, also when they come into an area, convince people not to come out with it.

(We discussed how a witness and their story is treated by several different Bigfoot Research groups. [you can read an article on Witness Ridicule here on this site])

Dr. Johnson: The common denominator appears to be "control" over the story.  The end result created by this common denominator, or "control" is that the witnesses and their story ends up getting buried in the archives of various Bigfoot Research organizations.

Christine:  There is a growing concern in the Bigfoot community over this issue.

 Johnson: Naturally, there are pros and cons to this dilemma. The upside is that the witness can come forward, share their story, and remain anonymous and safe from public ridicule.  The downside is that the media and the rest of the general public does not have access to the witness for additional information.

Christine:  Is this why you did the unthinkable and took charge of your own story?

Johnson:  Yes

(Dr. Johnson is an atypical witness (i.e., unlike most witnesses).  He has always had an outspoken personality, a passion for public education, and he's a licensed psychologist. 

When Dr. Johnson decided to take care of his own story rather than allow various Bigfoot Research groups to control his story and manage the media, the result was, the entire world had access to him.  I would never have been able to interview him and hike to the exact spot where he encountered the Bigfoot had he not done this. I knew there was something very different about him because of his courageous actions. This is the exact quality that drew me to this incident and this witness.)

Christine:  So, what has happened as a result of you taking control of your own story?

 Johnson:  I have been corresponding with teachers, pastors, children, attorneys, physicians, psychologists, housewives, university faculty, janitors, stockbrokers, the media, and everyone else you can think of. 

(Dr. Johnson seems to be an open book and accessible to all who treat him kindly and with respect. )

Christine:  What are you learning from your correspondence with all these different people?

Dr. Johnson: I have  learned about numerous sightings in the mountains south of the Oregon Caves National Monument Park.  The pieces concerning Bigfoot's presence in southern Oregon are slowly falling into place. We are experiencing "The Summer of Sasquatch".  People seem to be more willing to share their own encounters.  They open up to me because they know I share a common experience and can understand how they feel and how it has effected them.

(Dr. Johnson seems to be the first of a  new breed of witness who is pioneering a new paradigm shift in the way people think of Bigfoot, sightings, reports and those who courageously come forward to make the reports, while risking public ridicule and notoriety. 

 Perhaps we researchers can set our egos aside  and begin treating all witnesses with respect and dignity, regardless of our own personal prejudices about the credibility of the witness, and thus encourage more witnesses to come forward as Dr. Johnson did.

Witnesses need to understand that they can have as much control over the process as they want to have.   Once their is an  openness between witnesses, the public, the media, and the researcher, then maybe we will be able to collect more information and reach our shared goal more expeditiously.)

Christine:  Is there anything else that has come from being open to the public?

Johnson: I have been able to help an adult and a child (two separate situations), to address their possible symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) due to their encounters with Bigfoot.

Christine:  I imagine that this makes all the rest of the problems you've encountered, as a result of  you going public, worth while.

Johnson:  Definitely!

Christine: There are two different groups of people with different ideas. There is a group that wants the body and they don't care what they have to do to get it. The other ones want to protect it and study it.

Johnson: I want to protect. I want to study it. I'm not for shooting it, but you know, at the same time, being an outdoors person in Alaska, and majority of Alaskans all own more than one gun, I'm not going to have this knee jerk response that a field researcher shouldn't take a gun along with them. And I'm not saying that they should take a gun so they can kill it and get a body. I'm saying that they have the right to self defense. And anyone who makes an issue out of somebody carrying a weapon into the field--saying," They want to kill them and grab a body." No, they're taking the gun along for self defense and there's nothing wrong with self defense. And don't mix the two together.

Christine: Do you think you will be seeing yourself doing anything politically based. To gain protection for these animals?

Johnson: I've actually thought about this. I could possibly see myself down the road getting involved in something like that locally here, in Oregon. Uh, the county in the state of Washington that surrounds Mount St Helens. That county has a law that if you shoot a Sasquatch you can get fined up to $5,000.00 and get up to 5 years in prison. And the army corps of engineers has gigantapithicus listed as an endangered species. So you know there is governmental movement in that direction, but obviously there has to be a lot more. You know, I'm only four weeks into this. I've been doing a lot of learning, a lot of communicating. And It is sounds like to me that the scientific community simply is not going to accept the existence of bigfoot without a body. That is doesn't matter how many footprints you have or how many hair samples or sound recordings, that or even movie camera shots like the Patterson film unless they have a body it sounds like the scientific community...

Jim: If they can't dissect it doesn't exist.

Johnson: Exactly! I agree with other people like Matt Moneymaker from the BFRO who happens to have a law background, that there has to be enough evidence eventually where you can put it on the table and say, look, we can convict people of murders, send them away for life without having a body, just based on all the evidence, why can't we accept this creatures existence based on the same thing. Why do you insist that somebody go out and kill it and bring it in. I don't think that's right.

Christine: Jim and I were talking about the fact that if they ever did actually come up with a body that we would be disappointed in that it would probably end... you know, you have your arm chair adventurer, but then you have us individual people who go out because it's a passion.

Johnson: Right

Christine: And not the big researcher, but the little guy. Probably our role in it will be pushed away... we won't have a role because all the scientists and all the big shots will come in and push us all out and there will be nothing left for us. And so we are kind of at that point where we would like it to stay this way, you know what we mean, and not happen because we know what it will mean.

Jim: But at the same time it is adding to the core of human knowledge and about our earth, and its inhabitants. They (Chinese government) went out into china about five years ago looking for Bigfoot and found hundreds of new species of plants they had never seen before.

Christine: The Chinese government has sponsored several expeditions for the Yerin.

Johnson: that's pretty amazing!

Christine: (taken from a documentary I saw on TV) And all the children had pictures of the yerin hanging in the classroom. They knew exactly what they looked like. They had no questions of its existence. The government acknowledges it. It's amazing.

Jim: It makes me wonder about some other things. It sounds like there could have very well been some parallel development and at some point homo sapiens took some technological step and the others chose instead to stay in the wild...

Johnson: Live off the land.

Jim: Not in communal groups. So I would be very surprised to find a group of twenty, say, observed, ever. I would expect to find a family group of maybe two adults, a half mature male or female and perhaps some infants, at the very most.

Johnson: I've heard some thought about how they will ... there's been evidence that's been found where a lot of them have come together. There is speculation that they do that for the purposes of breeding. You can't just keep your own local pool...

Jim: Your gene pool

Johnson: Right

Christine: Perhaps that is why they may be somewhat nomadic?

Johnson: Right

Christine: Because they have to cover such large territories?

Have you ever thought about why there aren't the numbers that we would think there would be?

Jim: The sightings?

Christine: yeah! Because if the population had grown over the years you would think we would have more sightings.

Johnson: I've head some people say they think that there are only 200 of them. Others say there are two to 6 thousand of them around North America. I'm more apt to believe the 2 to 6 thousand range around North America. In order to keep the breeding populations going. That's small enough to be endangered, but I don't think there are as few as some people think there are. To have that many sightings in California, Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Missouri, New jersey, all over the place.

Christine: How is your family taking all this notoriety?

Johnson: Even though they are part of the credibility, the media seems to just be focusing on me.

Jennifer Cornilsen (My Sister) : Which is good.

Johnson: Yeah! Its good for them.

Jim: You are missing a lot of time out of your life. Like right now.

Johnson: Right . I put off seeing clients today just to come up here and do this.

Christine We appreciate this, we really do!

Johnson: You're welcome

(For a while we just chatted about nothing and everything not connected with Bigfoot. It was a very nice time during the ride up to the caves. We got to know Dr. Johnson better on a personal level and talked casually about ourselves and shared thoughts and feelings of a personal nature. Then, once again, Dr. Johnson brought the conversation back to Bigfoot.)

Johnson: I want to do two things. 1. Free people up to talk because if they can talk about their experience, which is sometimes very traumatic, and they can get their thoughts and feelings out, then they're not going to develop symptoms of PTSD (Post traumatic Stress Disorder). And second, if we can get more people to come out and talk about it then we can collect more data, understand the animal better, and protect it. So getting people to open up and talk about it is going to be a win win scenario for everybody. The only way I see to do that is combat the social taboo and stigma.

Christine: There's a guy waiting at Jennifer's house to talk to me about his experience. They're coming out of the woodwork. Every time you mention it everyone has a story.

Johnson: Right

Christine: It is people like you who are going wipe the stigma right off.

Johnson: I am being deluged with emails every day with people who have their own encounters, who have told me that they have never shared their story with anyone.

Jim: It would be nice to have them put down their locations on a U.S. map and get a density of sightings grid. I don't think you can use it for population numbers, because its ultimately effected by the intrusion of man into the environment...

We arrive at the caves...

Johnson Interview Page #2

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Fish Two

Bigfoot Welcome Mat